From: jcg@ElSegundoCA.ATTGIS.COM (Jonathan Gingerich) >>Does anyone know of a line of 15mm min. that have Russian Guard units? My >>army is mainly made up of Old Glory but I have yet to see any Russian Guard >>units. Thanks for any information you can give me. To answer the original question, AB Miniatures makes very nice 1812-14 Russian Guard Infantry, with a double-headed eagle on the shako which an easily be picked out with a dry brush. > >From all that I have been able to ascertain (Nafziger, Haythornthwaite, > Funken, et al) the general uniforms >of the Russian Imperial Guard differed slightly in overall cut from those > of other Grenadier Regiments. I think you mean differed slightly in details, the cut was essentially the same. > >Guard units were primarily noted by the extra braid around the cuff >button-holes and on the collars, and the >devices on the shako, the cartridge box, and the chin scales. In addition, > some units were also identified by The guard were not distinguished by chin scales, but did have copper-colored metal work. >distinctive markings on the top of the shako plume. It also depended >greatly upon which time period the uniform NCO's were distinguished by colored plume tips, not units. >dates. Old Glory's Russians are circa 1812 with the coal scuttle shako. >Prior to 1811, Russian infantry wore a >narrower shako with a taller plume which had been adopted after 1805. >Before 1805, most Russian units should The plume, worn by grenadiers and fusiliers, was fatter not taller, except that the guard had a pyramidal plume from 1808-11. >be wearing bicorne hats, except for grenadiers and most of them should >be wearing mitres similar to those of >the Pavlov Grenadiers of later on. Yes, but the jaegers, fusiliers, and guard had their own kind of hats... >After about 1813, some of the Guard units wore red coat lapels, among >them the Pavlov's after their incorporation into the Guard. The L.G.Pavlovsk, L.G.Grenadiers, and L.G.Finland had lapels from their creation, although the L.G.Finland's were d.green with red piping. >Both the Osprey book on Russian Infantry and Nafziger's book (if you >can find it anymore!!) on the Russian Army, >1800-1815 are good references. I personally hope that with the collapse >of the Soviet Union a wealth of heretofore Side by side comparison with the Osprey will show there is little reason to bother acquiring a copy of Nafziger. >unavailable information on the history and lineage of the Russian Army >prior to the 1917 Revolution will now be >Bill Cooper Jon. - practising that more fundamental human need, the need to edit! From: jcg@ElSegundoCA.ATTGIS.COM (Jonathan Gingerich) Certainly Haythornthwaite has the colors of the regiments, companies, and inspections! Any side by side comparison will show H. is almost always more complete, comprehensive, and correct than N. For instance, compare the description of swordknots, canteen placement, overcoat color, cartridge box badges, NCO distinctions, officer gorget design, officer horse furniture, etc, etc. H. is by no means the last word, however. Neither source is very precise about the distinctions between grenadiers and fusiliers, for example. There are two significant problems with H. First, like N., it asserts that 1) pre-1810 musketeer and fusilier battalions had a grenadier company, and that 2) pre-1810 jaeger regiments had a carabiner battalion and a carabiner company in the jaeger battalions. The first assertion appears to be based on an anomolous error in Zweguintzow, and the second appears to be pure invention. Secondly, the color charts used by each appear based on Gayda & Krijitsky, N. directly and H. through Rawkins. Both contain minor errors, but Rawkins transposed the white and yellow column of the 1810 (1807-1811) table, and H. did not correct this. >From the very careful Zweguintzow, which like Gayda & Krijitsky, is based on Viscovatov I believe the following is correct: January 21, 1810 Div red white yellow d.green azure ecru 1 Leib-grenadier Kexholm 2 St. Petersburg Gr. Pavlovsk Gr. Yelets Polotsk Lithuania 3 Taurida Gr. Chernigov Murom Koporye 4 Tobolsk Volhynia Vilna Kremenchug Minsk 5 Perm Sievsk Mogilev Kaluga 6 Azov Uglich Nizov Revel Sofia 7 Ekaterinoslav Gr. Pskov Moscow Vladimir Podolia 8 Moscow Gr. Archangel Shlisselburg Voronezh Old Ingermanland 9 Astrakhan Gr. Ryazhsk Ukraine Galicia Belostok 10 Kiev Gr. Yaroslavl Bryansk Kursk Crimea 11 Little Russia Gr. Siberia Gr. Nasheburg Apsheron Odessa 12 Phanagoria Gr. Smolensk Narva Orlov New Ingermanland 13 Nizhegorod Ladoga Aleksopol Butyrki Poltava Estonia 14 Rostov Tula Tenga Navaga 15 Vitebsk Kozlov Kolyvan Kura 16 Novgorod Nyslott Okhotsk Kamchatka Mingrelia 17 Ryazan Belozersk Brest Villmandstrand 18 Tambov Dnieper Kostroma Yakutsk 19 Kazan Suzdal Belev Sevastopol Vologda 20 Kherson Gr. Georgia Gr. Troitsk Tiflis Kabardia Saratov 21 Velikiye Luki Neva Petrovsk Libava Pernov 22 Vyborg Vyatka Stary Oskol Olonets Penza 23 Rylsk Ekaterinburg 24 Selenginsk 25 Shirvan Ufa Tomsk April 24, 1812 Div red white yellow d.green azure 3 Chernigov Murom Revel Koporye 4 Tobolsk Volhynia Kremenchug Minsk 5 Perm Sievsk Mogilev Kaluga 6 Azov Uglich Nizov Bryansk 7 Pskov Moscow Libava Sofia 8 Archangel Shlisselburg Old Ingermanland Ukraine 9 Nasheburg Apsheron Ryazhsk Yakutsk 10 Yaroslavl Kursk Crimea Belostok 11 Kexholm Yelets Polotsk Pernov 12 Smolensk Narva Aleksopol New Ingermanland 13 Velikiye Luki Saratov Galicia Penza 14 Tula Tenga Navaga Estonia 15 Vitebsk Kozlov Kolyvan Kura 16 Nyslott Okhotsk Kamchatka Mingrelia 17 Ryazan Belozersk Brest Villmandstrand 18 Vladimir Tambov Dnieper Kostroma 19 Kazan Suzdal Belev Sevastopol Vologda 20 Troitsk Tiflis Kabardia 21 Neva Petrovsk Lithuania Podolia 22 Vyborg Vyatka Stary Osko Olonets 23 Rylsk Ekaterinburg Selenginsk 24 Shirvan Butyrki Ufa Tomsk 25 Voronezh 26 Nizhegorod Ladoga Poltava Orlov 27 Odessa Vilna Ternapol Simbirsk I will examine the Inspection chart at another time. Jon. From: jcg@ElSegundoCA.ATTGIS.COM (Jonathan Gingerich) Let me offer a bit more extensive excerpt from Zweguintzow... Grand Duchess Catherine Pavlovna Sharpshooter Battalion As line jaeger except: Black dog (bear) fur around cylinderical (or slightly conic) shako for men (officers). Brass (gilt) chin scales and A over I badge. Black visor. Plain green overalls. No piping on green jacket. Green shoulder-straps (all gilt epaullettes). Officers had a gold fitted sabre in a black scabbard suspended from a patent black crossbelt. I believe the Parkhayev cards have a pretty good illustration. You may be able to obtain a set of cards (I know of 4 sets) from a Russian Book store. "The Russian Bookstore" in SanFran might be able to handle a phone order. Jon. From: ltcgray@usa.pipeline.com(Wilbur E. Gray) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 95 18:57:01 CDT This is a guess, but Zweguintzov's book L'Armee Russe (Vol IV) on page 373 lists a militia unit called Bataillon de S.A. Catherine Pavlovna. If this is indeed unit you are looking for, and assuming my French is OK, it seems to have worn a standard line Jaeger outfit, but with gold epaulettes (fringed green I think) and metal accoutraments. Gold "A 1" on the shako with pants and coat entirely dark green. Bill Gray