If wearing the shakos without covers (in my opinion the prevailing headwear in actual battle) the pompons will be different for the Converged Grenadiers. I believe (a little shaky on this one) that all regular Grenadiers wore red pompons, but since the Converged Grenadiers come from the 2nd Battalion, pompon colours will be red above, green below for the Grenadier platoons and yellow above and green below for the Tirailleur platoons, in other words 1/3rd of each Converged Grenadier battalion will have each. For the Carabinier companies (the remaining 1/3rd), pompons will be white with a yellow center (for the 2nd Battalion) for the 1st and 27th and higher Jager Regiments. Pompon centers are regimental instead of battalion for the 1st through 26th Jager Regiments, as below;
If your men are wearing the forage cap (I do not think this likely in battle) then the piping around the red headband will be yellow for Tirailleurs and red for Grenadiers and Carbiniers, in other words half and half of your Converged Grenadiers.
For colours (flags) , Converged Grenadiers apparently used the colour of one of their two constituant infantry battalions, I do not know whether they had one or two, and if two whether they were both from the same battalion. Of course this would be a "coloured" colour, the "white" colour being in the hands of the First Battalion of the regiment.
A.V. Suvoroff suvoroff@aol.com
Suvoroff is correct. The converged grenadier battalions were formed by combining 3 grenadier companies of 2d (depot) battalions. Two were from infantry regiments and the third from a jaeger regt, thus 1/3 of the converged battalion would be in jaeger uniforms.
Each company was composed of a grenadier and a sharpshooter platoon. The pompon colors were consistent for the foot by 1812, the 2d battalion grenadier platoon being red over green and the sharpshooters yellow over green.
The shoulder straps were colored according to regimental seniority within the division, and does not seem to correspond to their order within the two converged battations formed by each division.
The remainding 3 companies of the 2d battalions also took the field and certainly carried at least one flag, since the 2/Reval lost its colors. Possibly the other battalion flag might have been carried by a converged battalion, but I would guess not.
More information can be found in: Mark Conrad, trans. vol 10a (organization) and 10b (line foot uniforms) of Viskovatov available for $17 - 10a and $18 10b, foreign surface $1.50, foreign airmail $6 from: Mark Conrad 3 Hampton Road Eatontown, NJ 07724-2122 USA
Jonathan jcg@ElSegundoCA.NCR.com
Chris von Fahnestock outlandoh@aol.com (OutlandOH)
Background info (just in case you may not know this already) The Russian regiments were organised into specific divisions following the abandonement of the "inspection system in 1807. The shoulder straps would indicate the divisional number and the colour of the strap was allocated according to the seniority of the regiment within the division. Hence the combination of colour and divisional number would identify the specific regiment the soldier belonged to.
The lower the Jager regiment number in the army list (ie the older regiment) would be the more senior regiment of the two jager in the division.
According to reality many of these changes may not have ever been fully implemented. Many units could be wearing unforms from older stocks so it is possible to have a variety of descriptions/drawings all based from the at the same period and all are different - however each is a correct depiction of a particular regiment at that time.
So the question is do you want to paint your troops in regulation uniform or what that particular regiment actually wore? - If the latter then good luck.
I have not been able to verify the regulations with respect to the jager. However as the musketeer (or infantry as they were retitled in 1811) wore a great coat with the same colour collars and cuffs as their regulation jackets ie red/ red piped.
So according to regulations the collar and cuffs for musketeers were - to c1807 - plain greatcoat colour - 1807 - red collar, plain cuff piped red. - 1811 - red collar and cuffs
Hence another spanner in the works Why should the Jager have copied this musketeer regulation and not followed the same principle, but according to their own regulation jackets ie - up to 1807 - varies according to specific regiment - ie no 'system' exists. - 1807 - red cuffs, and white (yes white) collar piped red. - 1809 - dark green piped red
Note the colours for shoulder straps for jager also change over time and the respective senior regiment / junior regiment colours were; 1808 - (first introduced) red / light blue 1809 - yellow / light blue 1810 - the system is unchanged but some regiments are moved to other divisions. Hence some regiments change their shoulder strap colour according to their status change - ie to yellow or light blue. 1814 - April - 6 Jager become Jager Grenadier and take yellow straps. Those previously with yellow became light blue, those with light blue became green piped red. 1814 - August - Jager Grenadiers become Carabiniers and change to red straps. Scott Sutherland scottgs@sprintlink.co.za
Two parts.
one source - _The undress cap resembled the French bonnet de police, in dark green with the headband in the Inspection colour, piped in the shoulder strap colour, with a tassel of the company colour with fringe of mixed Inspection colour and dark green._
now as to the shoulder strap color needed for the preceeding - _Shoulder straps_ ...yellow or blue for the Light [Jaeger] regiments. In 1814 all regiments which had worn yellow changed to blue, all those which had blue changed to green [piped red]._
DAW nukday@worldnet.att.net